E04: Building Resilience as A Vegan Mom-To-Be

Connect with Melanie:
@melanieeleanorklein

Connect with Maya:
@vegan.prenatal.nutrition

What if you're the only one who identifies as a vegan in your social circle? How do you create a safe and supportive space as a vegan mom-to-be?

In episode 4, Melanie gives her take on the value of building a care team that is in alignment with your values and how she created a solid support system during her vegan pregnancy. Listen to Melanie share her story, her thoughts on collagen, what has helped her advocate for herself and how she's carved out a safe and supportive space in her Brooklyn-based community.

Transcribed:

Maya Bach:

Hi friends. Welcome to the Vegan Pregnancy Podcast. I'm your host, Maya Bach, prenatal dietitian, fellow vegan and founder of the Vegan Pregnancy Collective. From food to fitness, you'll hear from vegan moms to be, just like you, and other healthcare professionals. The goal is to empower, support and inspire you as you navigate your vegan pregnancy. Now let's dive in.

Maya Bach:

Thank you, Melanie, so much for joining us for today's episode. For those of you listening, Melanie and I connected over Instagram, and she is a vegan woman and expecting mom. I thought it would be great to have her join us and share her insight with you about her experience, her vegan pregnancy journey, to inspire you, to take action and to feel supported and feel confident in your decision around a vegan pregnancy. So with that said, Melanie, if you can introduce yourself a little bit to the listeners and share what prompted you to go vegan in the first place.

Melanie Klein:

Sure. Hi everybody. I'm Melanie Klein, and this is my second pregnancy. I have a plant-based toddler and I was inspired to this lifestyle about five, maybe six years ago. I had a weird light bulb moment, looked at my dog and just made the connection between loving him and taking care of him and then was like, well, why am I loving this animal and not showing that same appreciation for other animals? So I originally came to this lifestyle through empathy for animals and then as I continued on my journey and learned about the health benefits, the environmental benefits, the risks for pandemics and antibiotic resistance, there's other implications involved with this lifestyle as well. There's a lot of ramifications from how we breed and treat animals. My reasons have tripled and doubled, especially as I'm growing a family, but that was how I first came to this lifestyle, this awakening.

Maya Bach:

Thank you for sharing that. We all enter veganism in a different way and I feel it's important to share that in order to not only relate with one another and to build this community of like minded women also to bring in that greater purpose or that awareness about what is driving this journey, because it can be very easy for non vegans to occasionally dismiss or put down and, oh, well it's just a diet or it's just something that you eat versus don't eat, when really there are so many different reasons that extend beyond what we put into our bodies for why we go vegan. So I really appreciate you sharing that.

Melanie Klein:

Welcome.

Maya Bach:

So let's dive into the questions. In your own words, what does a healthy vegan pregnancy mean to you, appreciating that you are now expecting a second child, too?

Melanie Klein:

I mean, I'm no expert, I'm no doctor, I'm none of those things. I'm just a mom, but for me, its been listening to my gut, honoring my hunger, understanding that the first trimester in both my pregnancies was very hard to be quote unquote "perfect nutritionally", but that was okay just to get through the day and eat lots of bagels and vegan macaroni and cheese and mashed potatoes. I just needed calories in to keep the nausea down.

Maya Bach:

Totally.

Melanie Klein:

And focused on when I did feel better, okay, then can I get a smoothie in, or maybe I can't get a smoothie in, but can I get a glass of fortified soy milk in? And then in the second trimester, then I was able to get, I started having all these cravings for big salads and beans and all the things that I'm used to eating and that has continued on through my third trimesters in both my pregnancies.

Melanie Klein:

You know, I've gained a very healthy amount of weight, which doctors are much more supportive of that now. The whole idea that when our moms were pregnant was eat for two [inaudible 00:04:12] That is an old thought process, and I'm not here to tell people how much weight they should or should not gain, but there is benefits to not gaining a ton of weight during your pregnancy. You will have lower risks for things like gestational diabetes, which is also a more complicated issue. But that being said, I feel good. I have energy. I try to just continue eating the way that I was before and make sure that I'm getting the nutrients that the baby and I need.

Maya Bach:

Yeah and I really want to touch on what you mentioned. Being kind to yourself when you do have nausea and maybe it's a bagel for breakfast multiple days in a row and you can't hold much of anything down and the foods that you know and like aren't appealing. Can you speak to that for women who are going through something similar and worry about their nutrients? Are there things that helped you feel confident? Okay, when I don't feel nauseous, choosing a glass of soy milk is going to be a good option. Is there anything like that you did?

Melanie Klein:

Yeah. I think it's about listening to your body because even when I was nauseous, I would crave apples, like so many. It's funny because my son loves apples, and...

Maya Bach:

How funny.

Melanie Klein:

And I had a lot of them during my pregnancy and I had a lot of them during breastfeeding and he now, he would steal from a very young, he'd take the apple from me and suck on it. [crosstalk 00:05:46] So I do think our bodies, if we really listen, will really tell us what we need and sometimes it's fat and sometimes maybe the apple was my body's saying it needed water or something like that. I do think there's something to that and then there is something to the more small meals you eat, the better that you'll feel. And so when you do have a window of time where you aren't feeling nauseous, you can then get in whatever you need for that time.

Maya Bach:

That's a really good strategy. Yeah. The small meals and especially as you progress into your pregnancy and things are starting to push on your diaphragm.

Melanie Klein:

I still can't eat a big meal. The small meal thing has [inaudible 00:06:23] continued throughout. I kind of eat a small dinner with my son and then a few hours later when he goes to bed I eat another small meal.

Maya Bach:

Broken up, yeah.

Melanie Klein:

And then follow people like Maya, because you have tips on, I've seen a lot of tips on what to do when you're nauseous and how to help manage that. There are some things out there that will help.

Maya Bach:

Definitely. Yeah, and I think I really like what you've said, listening to your body. Obviously we want to be mindful of reaching our nutrient goals during pregnancy. We also want to be kind to ourselves and appreciate that. Focusing just on eating is going to be better than nothing and doing what feels good versus feeling like you're not getting enough and over-complicating it.

Melanie Klein:

Yeah and you don't want to be stressed as well. Being stressed during pregnancy is not healthy either. Right? So stressing about what you're eating and overthinking it. That energy is not something that you want. You want to have a nice, stress free, relaxed pregnancy as much as possible, so there is that idea as well as you have to let go a little bit.

Maya Bach:

There you go. It can be hard for some of us to do, but it's definitely worthwhile.

Maya Bach:

Speaking to that, as far as planning for your vegan pregnancy, you and I have talked a little bit about what society has been telling us and what doctors will tell us. What would you say was your biggest struggle when you were planning for your pregnancy and then now, currently pregnant?

Melanie Klein:

I think it's still just your inner confidence. Obviously second time around, there was a lot less focus on when I go to my doctor, they're not asking me a million questions about what I'm eating. For any mom out there who's on their second pregnancy, you'll notice that dramatic drop in concern from your OB on your second pregnancy. They're like, "ah, they know what they're doing." But first time around there definitely was questions of B12 and iron and things like that. And ironically, when I used to eat animal flesh, I was actually iron deficient as a lot of people are.

Maya Bach:

Interesting.

Melanie Klein:

I have had no issues with that so far. Every time they check all my vitals, everything is where it needs to be. In preparation, I did get a couple of books on vegan pregnancy. I definitely joined a lot of support groups like Raise Vegan on Facebook. I think I was more concerned with raising a vegan child in the back of my mind then having a vegan pregnancy.

Maya Bach:

Okay.

Melanie Klein:

If that makes any sense.

Maya Bach:

Yeah. Like thinking about the, how am I going to nourish...

Melanie Klein:

Yes. Thinking about how do then I bring this child into the world and feed them and baby led weaning. But I definitely recommend finding your support group, finding other vegan moms, even if that's just virtually online or by following people like you on social. There's also great accounts like Plant-Based Juniors and they touch upon vegan pregnancies and then raising vegan children as well.

Maya Bach:

Feeding and all, yeah, the [crosstalk 00:09:32] Yeah.

Melanie Klein:

If you ever have any concern, as long as every time we get your blood work done and you go in for your checkups, if you have any concerns, you can always say that to your OB, but I'm also lucky enough to be living in a city where alternative lifestyles are much, potentially much more accepted.

Maya Bach:

Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Melanie Klein:

Than perhaps somebody in another part of the country. I don't take that for granted as well.

Maya Bach:

Yeah. I appreciate you bringing that up. It is important to have support both from a medical standpoint, your doctor, your OB. His or her job is to help you have a healthy baby, have a healthy pregnancy, not necessarily a vegan one. And there's the lack of, I mean, this can be a whole separate topic of conversation, lack of nutrition, education and awareness. And also depending on what part of the world do you live in, lack of support for your decision. All of these different factors combined might lead for some people to get push back, second guess themselves and not feel confident. My point is, your doctor still wants you to have a healthy baby.

Melanie Klein:

The funny thing is, is the things that they tell you the first time you go, and when you get pregnant, the first things they tell you are you don't eat deli meat. Don't eat raw fish. Don't eat sushi.

Maya Bach:

Isn't that interesting?

Melanie Klein:

Don't have cheese. Don't have these things. And I remember my doctor saying that to me and I go, "I don't eat any of those things." And he goes, "Okay, so we're good."

Maya Bach:

Next!

Melanie Klein:

Next! But those are not really a concern. I also pushed back against just because you eat those things doesn't mean that you're also meeting your nutritional goals, right? You could eat those things and still be calcium deficient. You could eat those things and have low iron. You can eat those things and be having a very unhealthy diet in other ways and not meeting other nutritional goals that your baby and your body needs. I just think we need to disentangle this, I eat meat, therefore I'm nutritionally hitting all my markers, because chances are on this SAD diet, you're definitely not. SAD stands for Standard American Diet. We are dramatically fiber deficient in this country. [crosstalk 00:11:43] Interestingly enough, that's one of the common problems with pregnant women is having trouble going to the bathroom, and it's interesting, but when plant-based or vegan, a lot of that is eliminated because you have a very high fiber intake.

Maya Bach:

Yeah.

Melanie Klein:

You just need to have the confidence to say, "what are your concerns with a vegan pregnancy? What do you think that I need to focus on? And how do we work together to address those things?"

Maya Bach:

I really, yeah, a collaborative approach. Yeah.

Melanie Klein:

And if your OB is not open to collaborating with you, then I have to question, how are you going to have this life-changing, amazing, intimate experience with someone who doesn't want to help you along the way that might be cause for you to seek out other help.

Maya Bach:

Yeah, because it's such an important relationship during this unique time. If possible, insurance pending, location depend... all the access, if you're able to seek out and switch to a supportive partnership, or at least be able to tell your OB or your midwife, "I'm working with a vegan dietician", "I'm working with someone who specializes in plant-based pregnancy", whatever it is to give you, and them, the confidence that you are in fact, taking steps to appropriately plan. I've heard several stories of not supportive...

Melanie Klein:

Yeah. That pushback can come from, and not necessarily support, the pushback could come from anywhere. I had two doulas with my first pregnancy because one is kind of like a backup. They work as a partnership. And I really liked both of them and appreciated both of them. But at one point during the end of my pregnancy, we were talking about my birth plan, and one of them mentioned that she thought that being plant-based or being vegetarian meant I had lower collagen [crosstalk 00:13:36] and would be more likely to tear. And that upset me. And I just said to her, "You know what? I don't think that's true. I'm going to get back to you on that." And I went to my community. I think I went to the Raise Vegan or Vegan Pregnancy group on Facebook. And I said, "My doula said this, what are your thoughts?" And I got a lot of like, "Mm-mm. Hell no."

Maya Bach:

No, not true.

Melanie Klein:

"I don't know where she came up with that" blah, blah, blah. You know, jokes on her cause I didn't tear it all...

Maya Bach:

Yeah.

Melanie Klein:

For anyone who hasn't actually given birth yet, [inaudible 00:14:17] TMI. But you know, you have those moments and then you kind of check yourself and you say, "If someone has something negative to say, that doesn't mean it's true." And I always have space to say, "you know what? I'm not sure that's valid." I'm going to, and not that asking other vegan moms on Facebook is research. I'm not, I definitely know that's not, but you know, just an example of support.

Maya Bach:

Right. Being able to ask the question.

Melanie Klein:

Yeah. Has anyone else had this problem? Is this more common in this group because we are vegan?

Maya Bach:

Yeah.

Melanie Klein:

And now I know the whole collagen industry is a whole other, they are laughing all the way to the bank. Like there's a whole other mess.

Maya Bach:

That collagen. I really, it gets me worked up because it's upsetting.

Melanie Klein:

Such a waste of money and energy and it's just, I don't know who came up with that.

Maya Bach:

Someone very smart and now very wealthy.

Melanie Klein:

Exactly. Anyway, a little side note to say that the pushback could come from your doctor, it could come from your mother-in-law, it could come from your doula.

Maya Bach:

Did you find any family who weren't supportive of your decision?

Melanie Klein:

No. My mom was fully supportive. I don't even, to be honest with you, I don't think we talked too much about it, but I didn't really ask for anyone else's opinion.

Maya Bach:

There you go. Yeah. [inaudible 00:15:52] It depends on the relationship. Sometimes from what my clients have shared with me, they'll get comments, well intentioned, but also not supportive saying, "oh, well, now that you're pregnant, you're going to start eating fish, right?" Or, "you're going to start eating eggs once a day, right?" as in, what you're doing now is not correct.

Melanie Klein:

Right.

Maya Bach:

And that can feel disempowering and they question themselves then.

Melanie Klein:

And that's understandable. I have a general rule that if I don't take advice from anyone I wouldn't want to trade places with.

Maya Bach:

Oh.

Melanie Klein:

Generally think that people who give advice like that should lead by example and I try and do that. I want to be sort of nutritionally, mentally, physically lead by example for my family and my children. And I have done that. I have influenced people in my life to follow a more plant-based diet. And generally, if someone tells you something like that, I have to say, they're not a nutritionist and they're not a doctor. And quite frankly, often that convers... Those types of comments come from someone who's not in good health. So you have to check, what is that comment really saying? And what is the real concern?

Maya Bach:

What's the underlying... Yeah. It definitely depends on, again...

Melanie Klein:

Your relationships. Yes.

Maya Bach:

Relationships. And maybe this is coming from someone who's been a OB or family physician for 50 plus years and he's stuck in this mentality. I do feel net positive about the direction that both our society and the medical community is going as far as being open and supportive, engaging with a plant-based vegan lifestyle as more people adopt it, so, that is encouraging to see.

Melanie Klein:

Yeah. Agreed.

Maya Bach:

Yeah and I guess what you mentioned before, so my next question was what helped you overcome the struggle as far as nutrients, as far as verifying validating information? You touched on that. One thing I wanted to ask as a followup question to that, do you feel like outside of an online support or virtual community, were there other resources? So, you touched on books that helped you build that confidence?

Melanie Klein:

Yeah. I think Alicia Silverstone has one called The Kind Diet. There's a book called The Vegan Pregnancy Survival Guide. It's really short. It's like a little mini book, but I love that book. And I'm sorry, I'm blanking on the names because actually...

Maya Bach:

That's fine.

Melanie Klein:

I've had about three vegan pregnancy focused books. And then I had a bunch of other books that were just pregnancy. And I actually, since this is my last pregnancy, I have mailed all those books out to other vegan moms that I found. So I wanted to pass them along.

Maya Bach:

Pleasing.

Melanie Klein:

I don't remember all of the titles, but those books were supportive. I actually also really love, she's not vegan, but there's a book by Emily Oster.

Maya Bach:

Yes. Expecting Better.

Melanie Klein:

And that's a brilliant book because it's just no nonsense and just straightforward. And that's how I tend to look at things in general so it really spoke to me. Very matter of fact, very research based, science-based, research-based and in her book, she talks about pushing back on, I don't want an episiotomy and I don't want this and this is the research and I think that as a pregnant woman in general, you get a lot of, it doesn't matter if it's vegan or not, you get a lot of people telling you what to do and when to do it and how to do it. So I think there's just a general idea of feeling empowered, feeling knowledgeable, understanding what's going on. It's your body and no one is allowed to tell you what to do, when to do it, unless there's a risk to you or your baby. Everyone can just take five minutes and take a step back.

Maya Bach:

Right.

Melanie Klein:

In terms of confidence building, that's a great book, even though it's not a vegan focused book.

Maya Bach:

I couldn't agree more.

Melanie Klein:

Yeah.

Maya Bach:

Her approach to not only, here are the things to focus on, advocate for yourself, here's how to do that in an effective way, here's why some of the thinking might be outdated. She also gives you a framework. You take your personal preferences, your lifestyle, how you view the data, the recommendations, and then you make a decision for yourself. An epidural. Some people are going to look at the same set of information, recommendations, risks, benefits, and make a different decision based on that. There is no one size fits all approach and it is important to do what is best for you into your pregnancy.

Melanie Klein:

Exactly. And that, to be honest with you, is the whole, that's the start of it all, right? Like that's [inaudible 00:21:11] on for the rest of your life, you're going to get unsolicited advice about how to teach your child and how to bring up your kids and what to do and when to do and you're going to hate this. This blogger says this and this woman said how to sleep train. Its just starts at your pregnancy. Those comments from your mother-in-law or your OB will turn into comments from your mother-in-law and the pediatrician. So it's time now in your vegan pregnancy to take control and do the inner work on building your support and confidence and your own research and listening to your own gut because that concept will continue. And I'm sure you ask your mom and any other moms, that just keeps going until, I guess, they're 18.

Maya Bach:

Yeah. And probably beyond then.

Melanie Klein:

Yeah. So it's like, what to feed them? When should they start school? When should you go back to work? When shouldn't you go back to work? It's like a never-ending plethora of things. So the fact that you have already forged this battle with a vegan pregnancy sets you up for success because you've already gone against the norm and said, "Nope, this is what I'm doing. It's best for me and my child and the world. And this is where we're going."

Maya Bach:

I love that. I love that. I couldn't have said it better myself and I am not a mom. My sister is a mom and watching her navigate motherhood and all of these different decisions, it feels, I'm not going to speak for her, it looks like it can feel very overwhelming. Getting unsolicited advice can be an added layer, so taking into your preferences, risk versus benefit, weighing everything out and then making a decision that feels good for you. Yeah.

Maya Bach:

Last week I talked to a pelvic floor pain specialist. This is a little bit off topic, but you mentioned doula. And she also works as a doula. Some of the things that she recommended listening for, and in terms of advocating for yourself, is listening for these keywords. Like your OB will say, "Okay, now we're going to make a little cut to help baby come out." But it's really, that is a surgical procedure that you might not want. So have you experienced any of that? You know, you're already a mom and have gone through this process before in terms of being able to navigate that language with your healthcare provider in an effective way.

Melanie Klein:

Yeah. Again, I also think it's good to have your team, like build your tribe, build your team. I had my doula who understood my birth plan, since you're talking about a birth experience specifically, and I had my husband and he had the birth plan. He was well aware of the birth plan. And during my first pregnancy, I remember they walked in and were like, "Okay, we're going to break your water. And we're going to do this now." And he was the one that said, "Okay, hold on a minute. What are we doing? You were to ask us, this is my wife. This is her body. You can't just come in here and decide to do something." They get a little annoyed, but something, I think this is also in Emily's book, something she says or something my doula said was, "Am I at risk? Is the baby at risk? Then can we take five minutes and think about this?"

Melanie Klein:

And chances are, they're going to come back an hour later, plenty of time to think about what it is that they're going to do. But again, in that moment of labor, you need to have that support because you don't necessarily have the words. It could be throughout your pregnancy, throughout raising your child. If you have people around you that can stand up and say, "Oh, hey, no, she doesn't eat that", or, "we don't eat that way" or you're at a restaurant and you're not feeling well and your husband can order for you, or your partner can order for you, or a friend can help you out, or your friends know what food to bring you postpartum. If you keep this to yourself, then you're missing out on that support system, is what I would say.

Maya Bach:

I really like that. I also wanted to touch on the aspect of support because it is so important and multiple levels. Have you found support whether it's from friends, family, or partner outside of the medical community to be generally supportive of your decision and how have they done that to help you during this time?

Melanie Klein:

Yeah, I have, I've had to build up a vegan mom group vegan community in where I live.

Maya Bach:

Okay.

Melanie Klein:

And I started doing that by reaching out to just the general vegan community and just saying, "Is anybody on here a Mom or a parent? And is anybody here local?" Because I really wanted the local support and I wanted that. So I built a little group on WhatsApp.

Maya Bach:

Amazing. Goodness.

Melanie Klein:

We all share recipes or questions with each other and then we just had a meetup about two weeks ago in the park. Most of the moms are local. Some of them are a couple of miles away and things like that. But we use that. We lean on that group a lot...

Maya Bach:

Okay.

Melanie Klein:

To ask questions and have support. And I would say that's been really wonderful. And especially because some of these moms have older kids, too. So it's like, well, what's it like when they get to the school age and how do you handle that? And I've met moms in the park and I've added them to this group through just normal conversations. Or I remember a mom overheard me saying something of like, "oh no, Felix, we're not going to eat that because it has cows milk in it." And she sort of chimed in and she was like, "are you vegan?" [inaudible 00:27:05] I think it's just about not being afraid to speak up because you never know when you're going to find like-minded people, individuals, yeah.

Maya Bach:

Are you in New York City?

Melanie Klein:

I'm in Brooklyn, yes.

Maya Bach:

In Brooklyn. Okay. So for anyone listening who's in the Brooklyn area, contact Melanie, if it's okay with you.

Melanie Klein:

And I understand that's sort of a privilege that I have of living in an area where there is a big support system. There's a lot of vegan restaurants. There's a lot of families and that's not the case for everyone everywhere, but you could do the same thing that I'm doing with an online tribe, for example.

Maya Bach:

Yeah.

Melanie Klein:

And you really don't even need six vegan mom friends, you just need one.

Maya Bach:

There you go.

Melanie Klein:

I do. I have a vegan mom friend in Canada, and we always joke that if we lived close, we would hang out all the time.

Maya Bach:

I love that.

Melanie Klein:

She's raising her kids and we ask other questions and she's pregnant and this is her third and we support each other virtually.

Maya Bach:

That's incredible.

Melanie Klein:

Yeah.

Maya Bach:

Several of the women in my group program, some are Canadian, some are in the UK, some are the US. It's always great to find that support system and know that you're not alone and you can do this.

Melanie Klein:

Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if some of them wanted to have that support continue on after, whether or not they continue working with you or whenever, [crosstalk 00:28:32] kind of goes to the next phase. I would imagine there's definitely a need for that conversation.

Maya Bach:

Yeah. Continuing to get support beyond pregnancy.

Melanie Klein:

Yes.

Maya Bach:

Well, thank you so much for your time, Melanie. I really appreciate you sharing your experience as a vegan mom and going through a vegan pregnancy right now. I know other listeners will find this very inspiring and empowering. Is there anything that you would like to let the listeners know? One final piece of advice?

Melanie Klein:

Just know that by doing this, you are setting your child up for such a wonderful and enriching and healthy lifestyle and experience. You are giving them this amazing gift of an amazing gut microbiome right out of the gate and avoiding things that are just so common in children. Like I mentioned, a lot of non-vegan kids are constipated and they have eczema and other issues related to diet. I just think as much as people might tell you that this is a choice you're putting on them. Well, so as feeding your child and anything that you feed your child, you're putting that on them. You are giving them this wonderful gift of empathy and love and compassion. Don't be afraid to be different. If anybody does want to reach out, I'm happy to connect with people.

Maya Bach:

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I will link to your Instagram handle in the show notes...

Melanie Klein:

Sure.

Maya Bach:

So people can feel free to reach out and connect.

Melanie Klein:

Thank you so much. I loved this.

Maya Bach:

Good. Likewise, thank you.

Maya Bach:

Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you're ready to go from feeling concerned to confident as a vegan mom to be, send me a DM. I'm on Instagram @vegan.prenatal.nutrition. I'd love to hear from you and we can chat more and see if the vegan pregnancy collective is for you. Remember, you're not in this alone. If you enjoy today's episode, share it with a friend and subscribe to the Vegan Pregnancy Podcast to get notified when new episodes are released.