E10: Why It's OK to Ditch Your Birth Plan
In today's episode, working #momboss and California native Yelena shares with you her insight into expecting baby #2 while raising a toddler. We cover:
What helped her feel less stressed as a new mom
Why having the right people around you matters
Why you don't need to "know it all" as a first time mom
Why you need to be direct with your provider
How to choose the best prenatal for your pregnancy
Whether you're expecting your second child or simply thinking about trying for baby #2, this is a must-listen. Fun fact: Yelena and Maya first connected in 2014 in Chicago and when Yelena shared the news that she was expecting their first baby, Maya, predictably, started to happy-sad cry during brunch in Chicago. Yelena and her family now reside in sunny veg-friendly Los Angeles!
Connect with Maya:
Website: The Vegan Pregnancy Collective
Instagram:
@vegan.prenatal.nutrition
Transcript
Hi friends. Welcome to the Vegan Pregnancy Podcast. I'm your host, Maya Bach, prenatal dietitian, fellow vegan, and founder of the Vegan Pregnancy Collective. From food to fitness, you'll hear from vegan moms to be just like you and other healthcare professionals. The goal is to empower, support and inspire you as you navigate your vegan pregnancy.
Now let's dive in.
Welcome to today's episode. I have Yelana who will be joining us today. Yelena and I connected, oh my gosh, Yelena, how many years ago now?
Yelena: Yeah, I was so young. Eight years ago when we were in Chicago.
Maya: Yelena and my husband went to business school together and fast forward, eight years later, she is now a mom of one expecting baby number two on the way! I wanted to bring Yelena on the Podcase so she could really share her insight and her story with you. What has helped her especially preparing for baby number two as she is in her third trimester and getting ready for her second delivery, and have her share what tools and resources have helped, and we'll just have a fun convo.
Thanks for joining us.
Yelena: Thanks for having me.
Maya: This was the question that I had saved for last, but it's a good way to open up the conversation now that you have a beautiful baby boy and baby girl on the way, what is one piece of advice that you would give to expecting first-time moms now that you are expecting baby #2?
Yelena: I could have given myself this advice, but I probably wouldn't have taken it. And just to relax about it all a little more. It's funny, because going into the second one, you just, you know, so much about all the things that happen in those first few months. It was so hard in the moment to appreciate, but actually, those first few months of the baby's life should be easy, right?
Because baby just poops and sleeps and you just feed it every three hours. That's fine. It's manageable. You can read books and watch TV and that's it. Especially if you just have one. I think we were just so stressed about every little thing, making sure that the baby's breathing was right and that his temperature was right. That the room temperature was right. That the food is being consumed properly. We had consultants, we had just so much surrounding us. And the level of stress that we created for ourselves was a little silly. If that now I'm walking into the second baby thinking, you know what? That's actually pretty manageable.
I can totally do that without freaking out. I probably would have ignored myself. So easier said than done right now. Looking back, it's your first kid. You're so panicked. Everything is so scary. You're leaving the hospital. I have a tiny human that I have to keep alive. I can do it.
Maya: What do you feel like helped you reduce your stress and anxiety? Obviously time and figuring out what works, but were there any tools or resources that really helped you as a new mom?
Yelena: Right. People, it's very important to have the right pediatrician. And write just means someone that's on your wavelength that just jives with you. That's incredibly important.
And we found this really fantastic pediatrician out here. Who's really candid, really honest and very direct. He also is not someone who jumps the gun to meds. He's really much more practical about things. And also he's seen it and done it for a really long time. So he gives you that perspective of that's fine.
That's not a big deal. Everything's okay. And they're always available. It's the most important thing about a pediatrician. Someone who's got 24-hour call line, but I could call this guy like three in the morning and you call us back 30 minutes later and be like, stop waking me up. This is fine, but it was really nice to have.
So you just need to find someone who's like that and on your level and that you and this person have a similar kind of mentality and you can relate. That helps a lot. And then the books help the books, frankly, we’re a little more helpful for pregnancy information, but for being a mom. And there are just so many books.
If I told you to go get some books on it, you can buy different books and they'd all say five different things and it would just make you more stressed. I did find some people on YouTube kind of helpful. I'd watch some folks talk about their experiences with their kids and they break it up from month to month, six and six to nine.
And here are the toys I got for him. And here's the food I did. And here's how we transitioned to bottles. And here's how we started doing solids and everyone does it differently, but at least you get a real perspective and that's something published in a book that seems very polished and us, but just how an actual human being did this. I thought that, I don't know.
Maya: There's not a lot. It's, it's interesting. You say finding someone who likes finding the right people and building that support around you, especially if you have certain values and from a pediatrician, health care standpoint, making sure you do find someone who is aligned and who will support your decision, whether that's from feeding to sleep training and making sure that you're on the same page. Otherwise, I can imagine that would cause a lot of unnecessary anxiety.
Yelena: Yeah. People probably go into this thinking that they don't have specific values. Like you probably go into this thinking, like I'm a perfectly normal chill human being. I'll be a perfectly normal chill mom. I don't have a ton of preferences about how to raise my kid.
I'm not particular or weird like that. And I thought I was like that, but frankly, it's just such an important thing. And this is your human being and you develop actually fairly strong opinions. I don't know who does it. So maybe prepare yourself for the fact that you actually. Have more philosophical beliefs than you think.
For example, I always thought it was really crazy when I heard stories about moms who would just make all their own baby food. I just thought that was bonkers. That was like, that's available in the grocery store. Just go pick it up. And there's so many startups, that'll just bring it to your door and it's fresh and organic and wonderful.
I could not have imagined, but we made all our own baby food. I don't know. I got some. Geez. I don't want to just feed them this thing that comes into pouch and what's in this pouch and I don't know, maybe I'll just, I'll do some periods. I'll do some stuff and I hate cooking it. And I still made everything.
We made everything that he ate. And maybe that was a little bit crazy, probably a little bit crazy up until he was almost now almost two years old and he didn't really have processed sugar or stuff that we were uncomfortable with. And would that have been really terrible? No, I'm sure he would've been completely fine.
I don't know if this stuff becomes important to you, that you would just be so suppressed. I believe that for the listeners who are especially worried about finding a pediatrician who will support their decision to have a vegan pregnancy or to raise their kids, Because it is still not widely accepted and controversial finding a provider that you trust with your pregnancy and also a provider who you can trust with your kids.
This is how I want to do things. I'm just being honest with them, but the pregnancy part will be your OB, but just be really direct. There's a period of interviewing basically. And you're just meeting doctors. When we went into the process, I had been a vegetarian for, oh, like 10 years or something. And that was a thing they asked.
And I got back, at least from the OB that we actually eventually went with. If you do this right and thoughtfully, and you have the right supplements in your diet, you don't just eat a bunch of ice cream and carbs and call it a day. Then you're going to have to put in more work than maybe someone who just eats a much more balanced diet.
Because you don't eat meat, there are just other things you have to do and we can make it work, but you have to do it. If you talk to someone and they say, Hey, I really need you to start eating steak. Maybe not a great fit for you. Cool.
Maya: I love that. Being direct and honest with them. Some women I talked to were like,” oh, I'm afraid to talk to them, I had bad experiences in the past. My OB doesn't know that I'm vegan.” They’ve had poor past experiences. Your OB or your doctor are there to guide you and support you for how to have a healthy pregnancy, not necessarily vegan, vegetarian, whatever, but the goal is the same. Have a healthy baby, not just about the food, right?
Yelena: There'll be all kinds of preferences. You'll have preferences about how you want your delivery to happen. You'll have preferences about you want a doula. You want it to be in a bathtub. You want to be in a birthing center, whatever. Yeah. The more direct you are with this person, the better. And we had a great experience with our first OB.
We did end up changing OBs because we moved to LA and found someone that was just a way better fit. I probably wouldn't have proactively tried to find someone new, but because we moved, we just ended up with someone way back. But I think not being directed with this is a little bit silly, because you're just kind of work for you.
Maya: So if you're not telling them what it is that you need from them, they will not deliver it. And then you'll both be really upset. Yeah. It's a partnership at the end of the day. You mentioned doula. Did you decide to go down that route or not?
Yelena: I think to be honest and say, I have no idea why some people do that. Everyone has different perspectives. I really thought that I wanted a natural. Perth, meaning let's do this whole thing. I want to experience it all. Naturally. I think we went to some class for learning a Lamaze and breathing and whatnot, and they told us that something like 97% of women haven't medicated pregnancy in some way, it's just incredibly rare for someone to actually not go through it, getting an epidural daunting odds.
So we did the classes and stuff, and doulas are probably great for that. If you're going to have a natural birth, you want someone with you who has experience in pain management, who can train you up until that point. They're also in your room or they're supposed to be there, in theory, and are a lot more experienced than you are, so they can go run after the doctor and explain the things that you need. In your birthing process, they'll run up to the nurses and say, “Hey, I really want to get extra back pillows” or “Give her fruit juice.” They just know what it is that they can ask for. Whereas you're probably uncomfortable. You have no idea what's okay to ask for, what's not, and what's dangerous. And they know how to read the signals on the baby monitor to tell you your baby's good. Your baby's in distress.
Sometimes you feel like nurses, aren't being honest with you. So you might want to have someone in the room who your partner would be honest with you, but your partner is also not good at reading monitors. So I'm sure there's a ton of value in it. For me, I just thought it was a little more of a private experience and I just wanted it to be my partner.
Maya: Share a little bit more about, if you're comfortable, you mentioned positive delivery experience, what that was like, and if there's anything you're doing now to prepare differently for baby number two, I did not. Making it a natural birth didn't really work out that way. My baby was sunny side up, which is he was flipped facing the wrong direction.
And as a result, the pressure was on my back, which is a little abnormal. And so the contractions felt really different to me. I think the main due to other people, I really felt them in my back. So they felt like really bad back pain. I didn't even know they were contractions. I just thought I was having really terrible back pain for hours.
So we didn't go into the hospital for a long time. I was just at home being like, Jesus, this is really rough. But by the time we got to the hospital, I think what kind of clued us into it was that it was back pain that would come and go, which is a really great sign as something else. By the time we got to the hospital, it was really bad.
And I don't know. Well, maybe if he had been in a different position, I would've been able to handle that pain. I'm sure it would have been equally painful to be clear, but for whatever reason, it just, it was miserable. And so I totally caved in, I was like, just give me the epidural. And it was from that point 30 hours until a baby is delivered.
So there are some brave women, they do 30 hours. My mom, most people's parents probably read the whole thing unmedicated, but I just felt like that was going to be a super scary experience. I did the epidural. The only thing that's annoying about the epidural is you can't walk around anymore. So all of your autonomy in that room, it's a natural birth.
You go grab a sandwich, you can walk around, you can do whatever. And it actually helps with the pain and also the stress of it because the epidural for 30 hours, I was basically in the same position which not been, and just makes you cranky and stress, but you aren't in tremendous pain. So I guess that's quite nice.
But other than that, yeah, it was nice. I liked all the nurses. We were at Cedar Sinai out here. I liked all the nurses and everyone that we interacted with, they were all very supportive. Whenever I was uncomfortable, they really did help. And I think he was just as stressful on John as it was on me. Cause neither of us really knew what to do or how to handle it.
And his decisions came up. Those were scary. And it was really hard to think about like the baby doing well, should we, should we do this? Like how should we kind of handle this? And I'll turn out okay. Then they give you a baby!
Maya: Okay. I know the epidural is a decision women feel strongly about, have you made a decision with this next delivery as far as that goes?
Yelena: Yeah, I'd probably do it again. I mean the reasons to not do it, there are people who are worried about scary side effects of any drugs or scary side effects, but it's an injection into your spine. There are reasons to be terrified. The instances of those from my research were really low. So probably not that big of an issue.
It doesn't, to my knowledge, I'm no doctor, but it doesn't affect the baby. Anything to do with that one thing that happens, of course, is when you're in the pushing process, you just can't, you can't really feel it the same way. Obviously, this little point is can't feel anything.
So I think it takes something away from that experience a little bit. And then I worry makes that harder, but you actually can reduce the level of epidural. It's just the same as a morphine drip. You can take it down and up. So when we were in that phase, I did ask them to take it down a bit, so that.
Be more present and there's more flexibility than you'd think.
Maya: Okay. Interesting. I didn't know that that's good to know that you can also make a decision then in there and not have to worry and stress about should I or shouldn’t I. And you mentioned earlier pregnancy books, and this is something I feel strongly about because there is a lack of information, resources in general, around what it means to have a healthy pregnancy.
Yelena: If you’re choosing to exclude animal products and it can feel scary. Right? So that doctor said, okay, well you can do it. It's just, you're going to have to put some more effort and time, and energy into making sure that you are meeting your needs. Yep. Did you find any resources or books or anything that was like, oh my gosh...
Okay. Nutrition beyond that helped you build that competence. That's like the biggest thing in pregnancy is am I eating the right stuff? Am I eating too much stuff? My eating, not enough stuff. Is it good for the baby? Is it good for me? It's all you think about actually. And then in the first trimester, you just barely can eat anything.
And you know, some people are just incredibly sick, so it just adds so many layers of problems. Did I find great books on that? Not really. Generally, the books are really all-purpose. The only one that I really liked, there was one called “I'm Pregnant! but an exclamation point. And it's like a picture book.
It's just a lot of images of the different phases of the pregnancy, which is fun. So you can see these real images of what a baby looks like in the womb. It's a little more fun than someone in an app telling you your baby's the size of the zucchini, the bay. It's a little more realistic. Let me give you a lot of what to expect.
Hey, in this part of the pregnancy, you will be more hormonal. And as part of the pregnancy, your hair will fall out. Whatever, like it just, it gives you like a lot of it's common. Chill. And in this part of the pregnancy, you have weird stomach pain. Don't freak out. That's the thing. And it's fun. They do a good amount of nutrition there.
I remember there was like a couple of pages of here's the type of leafy greens. You should make sure you incorporate it in your diet. And everyone has to take some kind of prenatal vitamin. I was a little weird about this, and I really wanted to, as opposed to just taking one large prenatal, I was trying to get all of the different vitamins. If you look at all the prenatal vitamins on the shelves, by the way, they have completely different stuff in them. There's not one recipe. It makes no sense. And especially if you're vegan or you're doing something else that nutrition you'd use very different. So the supplements you need are very different.
And so just buying the one-a-day multivitamin or whatever is probably not generic. So they did. I remember it in that book, do a really nice job talking about the exact sort of milligram levels of everything that you would need. And it says, Hey, if you're going to be light on leafy greens where you're having a really rough, fresh time rusher, and you're not eating this, make sure you incorporate whatever. And I think it was folate and DHA were the most important things that they from studies had ever really seen it have an impact on the baby. And the rest of the stuff was really from mom. Like calcium is really just so that the baby doesn't tear all the calcium out of your body, that babies basically just take all of your food.
So if you don't eat well, to some extent to just get straight to you, the baby will be okay. I thought that was helpful. There weren't a ton of great resources though, to be honest, it's just another one of those come back to your OB and say, Hey, I'm having trouble eating. I don't feel like I'm getting anything down. It's been a while. Cause the baby going to be okay. Should I be taking some kind of vitamin? If you can get vitamins down. Well, vitamins, I suppose and having a good idea of what those targets are milligrams.
Maya: I really liked how you said that, Yelena, because I know a lot of the listeners are worried about their nutrient needs, especially in the first trimester, if they're experiencing ongoing nausea and I'm like my own eating our bagels and.
Yelena: Yep. But also calcium is being pulled from your body to baby. So don't over-rotate on “Oh my gosh, now I'm going to cause harm to the development process.” Probably not. I'm no doctor, but I was told, but there is a lot of fear and worry wrapped up in what to eat.
My doctor definitely was like “Hey, if there's something that you can eat and you like eating it, just eat that. Like, hey, bagels are working for me. And I kind of like ice cream is that this is that. Okay. And she's like, you know, not. But if there's nothing else going down then ice cream's got calcium in it. It's fine.
But you can figure out what's right for you. Or you have these really weird cravings and the cravings are really supposed to be your body asking you for specific stuff. So for whatever reason, you are suddenly really craving apples, which I know that was one of my mom's cravings when she was pregnant with me. Then your body needs iron, go eat a ton of apples, and then you'll never want to look at apples again, it's very erratic and super weird, but those are signals yeah, you're missing something there.
Maya: Did you have weird cravings?
Yelena: Not weird, but just different than per usual. Ask John, I don't think so. I do eat an enormous amount of ice cream when I'm pregnant, like a really unhealthy, like a pint a day level of ice cream. And there is a place up the street from us that does fancy ice creams like rosewater and saffron and pistachio ice cream. And I was on a real rosewater and saffron ice cream kick. John would run up there and get me pints of it. Now, I really don't like it nearly as much. So it must've been a pregnancy thing. I did eat a lot of sugar generally. It's probably not that great.
I did eat a ton of fruit, a bunch of smoothies. Cause that was a nice way to get vegetables in that I didn't want to otherwise. That's pretty much classic.
Maya: That's one of the questions that I get, oh, well, Maya I'm craving meat and meat cravings are something even for women who have been vegan for 5, 10, 15 years, all of a sudden come in strong. There isn't enough evidence to show that craving meat or specific food indicates a low deficiency, except in one very abnormal situation where you're craving dirt, soil, ice, like random things, which means you’re super low in iron and very iron deficient. I always reassure women, their meat craving isn't linked to nutrient deficiency.
Yelena: It could be your body. You want something savory chips are crunchy and salty, or we like savory foods or something from your past can come up. I like that you brought that up because cravings for different things are totally not. Yeah. Okay.
Maya: Any parting thoughts? I really appreciate your time and I know people are going to love listening to your story and your tips as you expect, baby.
Yelena: Number two, just trying to find ways to make sure your partner feels really included in the process. A lot of women go through pregnancy and they obviously want their partner to be super supportive and help them through these really difficult windows. And I think what they don't appreciate is that it is probably really hard if you're not the person carrying the baby to feel quite as connected or to really understand even what's going on.
Then in addition to deal with this that you’re struggling through stuff and need so much help, I think it's a hard spot to be in because as the partner, you're not really making the decisions about birth plan or nutrition or any of these things. But you'd likely have opinions and it's also your baby.
And so that can be very scary. So I tried to find ways to make sure that they're at all the appointments if they can make it and be at the ultrasounds and have them hear directly from the OB, that it might be okay to have a nutritionally different pregnancy than maybe they expect, let them ask all the questions that they want to ask.
I think that was. Important to John, right? Hey, if we're not eating this, if we're reading that, it feels like she hasn't eaten anything in a week. Is that okay? It's just bagels, but let them get those questions out to remember that this is a forum as much. Them as it is for you. And if you have an OB that's not super open to that, that's not a great OB, right?
She's a partner to both of you. So that was a big piece of it. And COVID now is such that you really just can't bring anyone to your appointments, trying to find other ways like FaceTime doesn't quite cut it to just make sure that person feels really included in the decisions. And the decisions really come from both of you.
I know it feels like boy, it's my body and this stuff is really hard and it's all happening to me. But it is happening to both of you and you don't isolate the person that's supposed to be your champion in the whole thing and make sure that they feel like they, we have a voice.
Maya: I love that. Very powerful, especially getting creative now in the time of COVID depending on where you live, it can be extra tricky.
Yelena: Yeah. Hope that helps.
Maya: Thank you for joining us, Yelena. I really appreciate your taking the time and will talk to you later!
You are not alone in your decision to have a healthy baby without eating animal products. It's designed to give you the tools, the support, nutrient calculators, guides, recipes, and most of all, there's a community of like-minded women here for you. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. If you're ready to go from feeling concerned to confident as a vegan mom-to-be, send me a DM I'm on Instagram @vegan.prenatal.nutrition
I'd love to hear from you and we can chat more and see if the Vegan Pregnancy Collective is for you. Remember, you're not in this alone. If you enjoy today's episode, share it with a friend and subscribe to the Vegan Pregnancy Podcast to get notified when new episodes are released.
